Speaker 1 (00:00): This one’s for you General Contractors Baton Rouge.
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Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey, welcome back to the K-Cup. I’m your host, Joe nor Tripp, and this week we have a special guest. We’re conducting a team member Spotlight, our first team member Spotlight, and we have Cameron Plummer here. He is one of our project managers here at Kelly Construction Group, and we’re excited to get to sit with him and gain some insight into what that position entails here at Kelly Construction Group. So, thanks for sitting in with us, Cameron. Yeah. Happy, appreciate it. We know that you weren’t super excited about hearing you had to be on the podcast and be on camera and all that, but you get into construction to end up on camera naturally, right, <laugh>? That’s right. So we know you’re a natural though. We, if you do as good a job on this podcast episode as you do as as pm it’s gonna be.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
All right. So here we go. You know, we just wanna get some insight again, like I said, into what it means to be a project manager from your point of view you know, on our team Kelly Construction Group’s team. And but before we get started, before we dive into that, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be here at Kelley Construction Group? So I was actually a professional firefighter for about six years before I got into the construction business full-time. I worked three years as a residential project manager. And then I’ve been here for about two and a half, three years on the commercial side, so, okay. A total of about six years with, you know, a few little miscellaneous renovations kind of things while I was in the fire department and on, on the side, helping people out and just kind of trying to learn as much as I could in the field side of it.
Speaker 2 (01:48): Spotlighting team members is great General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Sure. So got a beautiful wife and a beautiful daughter, and I enjoy playing golf and <laugh>. So you woodworking on the side and you’re a duffer, is what you’re saying? <Laugh>, definitely. That like to hit the links, huh? <Laugh>. Yeah. I I get my money’s worth out of it. I <laugh> more strokes than, you know, the, the more value you get. There you go. That’s right. <Laugh>. Yeah. 20 over par is not a bad deal. Right. You’re getting your money’s worth <laugh>. If I could shoot 20 over par, I’d be pumped. You’d be pumped, huh? Yeah. Yeah. We’re looking more about 30, I guess, <laugh>. Wow. Oh, it sounds like maybe I could join you guys on the lease. Yeah. If, if we’re, if you’re in that area anyways. Well, glad to hear you know, that you like to get out and do something. We, it’s, we appreciate the fact that you’re a family man.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
You have a young family, and that’s exciting. And you know, that, that obviously gives you incentive to wanna do a good job and everything. So, you know, we really encourage the, and you know, love the, the whole family thing around here, so it’s part of our culture, Kelly. Yeah, absolutely. So well, let’s dive in, man. Let’s talk about you know, the career side of this, some of the, you know, basics of your role. And so walk us through kind of a typical day of project management. So a typical day, usually first thing I do when I get in is make a pot of coffee <laugh>. We, we appreciate that. And then the next thing after that is just kind of diving emails for a good half hour or 45 minutes. Just catch up on correspondence from the day before.
Speaker 2 (03:25): Let’s learn more General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Sometimes, you know, there’s Sure. Super heavy email days and some days there’s, you know, yeah, maybe only a couple come through, but I like to always scroll back a few days, just make sure I’m not missing missing anybody’s emails or anything like that. So yeah, that’s a good practice for sure. That’s usually the first thing. And then after that, I’ll kind of jump in and look at the, the progress report from the previous day on, on the projects, all the photos and notes that our superintendents are putting in there just to keep an idea of what’s going on. Good, good deal. And then after that, it’s really, I try to keep little windows in my schedule where I, where I do the same things on certain days or during, you know, certain blocks of time at least. But yeah, for the most part, every day’s fairly different.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But, you know, you’re just processing RFIs and, and yeah. Submittals and updating schedules and yeah. Collecting all the invoices so that everything’s ready to go for billing. Sure. and, you know, just corresponding with everybody that I can. Yeah. just to make sure that we’re all kind of on the same page. Cool. If, if we’re waiting, you know, longer on, on something that we’d like, you know, at least just communicate that to everybody and, and let ’em know that it, it hasn’t been forgotten about, you know, that it’s Yeah. Updates are nice. Yeah. Keep everybody happy. And even if I don’t have an answer, I still try to at least always, you know, give some sort of update to touch base and just let ’em know Yeah. Hasn’t just gone into the abyss and <laugh> Yeah. As a black ball about, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:53): Does he describe what it means to be a PM pretty good? What do you think General Contractors Baton Rouge?
That’s huge, man. That’s good. Did you, did you have any idea how much administrative stuff was involved with being a project manager in commercial construction? Yes and no. I mean, I think you, you definitely hear about it. Yeah. And then starting on the residential side, you know, it wasn’t near as much. Yeah. Paperwork, it was still a lot, but mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah, the commercial game is just a whole different thing. You know, you gotta make sure every single thing that you do is documented in some sort of way and ton of layers, you know, that it’s easily accessible. You don’t have to go, you know, digging forward for days, you know? Yes. You want it to be right there at the tip of your fingers when you, when you want it. So yeah, it’s definitely heavy on the documentation side of it, maybe a little more so than I expected, but yeah, it, it definitely helps to have all that documentation, you know, supporting you for sure in whatever, you know, whatever situation might be, so, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I mean, you can’t document too much in, in this industry for sure. So, so what drew you to want to become a project manager in the first place? Like what was your I don’t know. Yeah, your motivation, I guess, your inspiration. <Laugh>. So I’ve always been intrigued by construction my whole life kind of, you know, it’s just interested me to see starting from another than and ended up with something. Yeah. And, you know, when I was a kid, I always said I wanted to be a, a carpenter. Yeah. I don’t know if that was came from church or what, you know, <laugh> with Jesus being a carpenter, but <laugh> Yeah. The older I got, the more I realized that I didn’t want to be on the tools my whole life, <laugh>. So that just kind of naturally progressed into knowing I wanted to be in construction in some facet, but like I said, not wanting to be sweating in the 110 degree heat out there every day like we got here.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So yeah. Brutal. That’s kind of naturally led to construction management in school, and, you know, to hear, we’ll call that a smart move on your part, <laugh>, I question that some days, but good foresight. Yeah. Some days I’d rather be out there yeah. Doing something with my hands. But yeah, I do, I get that. I enjoy it and I do get the opportunity to go out there and do that from time to time, so, sure. It’s a good mix. Yeah, it is. It is. You do, I I notice that you are always game to if, if super needs a little help out in the field, you know, you don’t have no problem, you know, schedule allowing Yeah. Getting up and going out there and giving them a hand and stuff, so, well, yeah. It’s nice to get out, but it’s also, you know, it’s a, it’s a great time to learn.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah. So you, for sure you really understand things in a whole different way, you know, in a more practical way. Yes. If you’re out there and at least watching it being done, you know, you might not even be the one doing it, but just to see the whole process for sure. It, it helps looking at drawings and everything else, you know, you can really visualize a whole lot better. So Absolutely. That’s one of the bigger reasons that I try to do it when I can. It’s just, yeah. I think that’s smart. And I definitely think it’s important to have some practical experience out in the field. Like I said, even if you’re just out there as an observer and learning process, it still helps you when you come back and have to, you know, analyze a problem and Yeah. Remember reviewing, you know, submittal documents or shop drawings.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I mean, even simple as simple as I went and installed some toilet partitions a couple months back and have a whole new appreciation for ’em now, don’t you? But it makes it a whole lot easier. You know, this, this most recent time that I’ve looked at shop drawings or toilet partitions, you knowit, it just clicks in a whole different way and it makes a whole lot more sense. So. Awesome. It’s definitely very helpful to get out there and put eyes on it. Good deal. So, so since you, you know, started, you know, making tracks towards the project management side of things, how would you say that position’s evolved for you since, you know, how you started to what you do now here at KCG? Well, I think the natural evolution of, you know, being in any kind of management role is over time you get more responsibility put on you and you gotta figure out kind of how to manage that.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
My expectations for myself have become higher you know, have evolved to be higher over time mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I try to organize my organization. I try to <laugh> make sure that’s evolving as well, you know, if I’m doing something that I see as becoming an issue, you know, in projects and, you know, try to switch that process out to something different. So yeah, I would say that most of the evolution is just in the, in the processes of, of how you do things and trying to streamline those and yeah. Just make ’em more efficient and, and better for everybody, you know? Yeah. The more you understand your own processes, the, the better. Everything kind of flows out from that. So, for sure. And, and I think the fact that in particularly in commercial construction, you’re dealing with architects, engineers you know, all these different professionals on a regular basis, the project owners a lot of times mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
And I think it, it, you’ve come to appreciate just how much a profession being a good PM really is, it’s not just a job. It really is a profession, and there’s definitely an art to doing a good job with it and stuff. And yeah, it’s definitely a multifaceted for sure. There’s, yeah, you have to wear quite a few hats for sure. Changing gears constantly mm-hmm <affirmative>. Changing hats and managing all kinds of different personalities and different professions. So it really is a skill and and you can get really good at it if you, if you look at it that way and continue to hone it. So that’s pretty cool. So as far as projects that you’ve been involved with you know, since you’ve been here do any stand out that you are just kind of exceptionally proud of? The way they, it, it all came together and and the way you were able to manage things and make things work, fall into place and Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I would say we did a job at LSU for their lab schools football field. We did a, a really nice pavilion and, and concession building, and it had a lot of, you know, fairly intricate details mm-hmm <affirmative>. With the pavilion itself and a lot of signage and, and everything else. And it was just, that was my first real commercial ground up mm-hmm <affirmative>. Build done a lot of build outs, but that was the first one to go from an, an empty field in a parking lot to, you know, a finished result. So yeah, I’m proud of that one. And, and it took a lot of problem solving from me and, and Sergio, our superintendent that we had out there. It was definitely challenging, but I’m proud of the way that we were able to kind of put our brains together and, and come up with solutions Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
On a lot of different things that required it. So yeah, I remember that project. It definitely had a few challenges when you guys first were breaking ground and stuff that you kind of had to troubleshoot and Yeah. Overcome. And, and I, since its completion, I’ve seen that, you know, the high resolution images that our professional photographer that we used took of the project and the drone footage, and it looked really amazing. It looked great. Yeah. It came together really, really, really together. Yeah. That’s definitely a good one to highlight. All right. Good. Well, let’s talk a little bit about team and and kind of client dynamics. You know, the, the two have to work together. So what’s one key to managing the crew out in the field and at the same time managing the, the owner’s expectations? You know, how those two things kind of jive.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah. So I would say it starts with the expectations with the owner. So usually kind of at a, at our pre-construction meeting with the owner and the architect and everybody, I try to set some, some realistic expectations mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I just try to foster that relationship from the very beginning and, and establish that trust and, and everything there. And I think if you have that and you have realistic expectations for everybody mm-hmm <affirmative>. Owner included Yeah. That kind of naturally steps down to the field. Yeah. and it just opens that door for, you know, we want good communication, we want you to be on time every day, be here. If you can’t be here, let us know. Yeah. and, you know, we also have a preconstruction with our subcontractors, so mm-hmm <affirmative>. Once those expectations are set with and from the owner, that then gets passed down, you know, at that next meeting.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And that kind of sets the tone for the project. Yeah, that’s a great point. So basically what you’re saying is that you, you meet with the owners, you set, you know, the expectations or, or made known or set, and then that’s kind of drives how you pursue what goes on in the field, because your goal is to meet those expectations that you made with the owner Yeah. Or exceed them. Yeah. Or exceed them. So that’s, that’s great. And I mean, that’s, that’s a process and it’s really a pretty straightforward process, but it seems like it’s something that would definitely motivate you and drive you to, you know, if you’re Yeah, I, that kind of person, you know, I definitely try to always have my pre-construction and it usually naturally happens this way, but I always want to have that pre-construction meeting with the owner and the architect before I, I do the same with the subcontractors Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
For that, for that reason. And, you know, obviously that also gives us some other information about how we’re gonna do the job that, that gets passed down to the subs as well. But yeah, I think it’s just important to set, expect, set realistic expectations with everybody up front. ’cause Yes, I know, especially owners, you know, if they’re not familiar with the construction processes, which, you know, why would they be, frankly Yeah. They don’t need to be. Yeah. that’s why they hired you in the first place, but <laugh> Yeah. I think you just have to set those expectations to know that, you know, know, it might not be like you see on tv, it might not, you know, <laugh> Yeah. It’s not gonna be a two week thing, it’s gonna be a, you know, two month thing or whatever. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. A lot of processes have to take place for this thing to come together, so, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Cool. That, that sounds like a great explanation of how you manage that. For sure. So how do you keep a project on track then, when things don’t go as planned, which we know that’s kind of, you know, the rule of the day these days ever, ever since you know, the whole pandemic thing and the supply chain issues that came, came up with that. Yeah. How do you manage all that when it, when it doesn’t go right. Yeah. So I’d say that no project quite goes as planned ever <laugh> in construction world, <laugh>. So really that’s, that’s kind of the biggest part of our job is, is managing that. And when those things do happen inevitably, you know, how do you get on the other side of it and come out with the, the finished result that everybody wants? Yeah. but I think with a lot of things in project management, communication is the absolute key to, to all of it.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think as soon as you hear, you know, from a vendor, you know, this, this material that we thought was gonna be a two month lead time is now a six month lead time. Yeah. as soon as you hear that from the vendor, you gotta get with your sub say, you know, rework your schedule. How can we keep making progress while we’re waiting on this, you know, for we’re not just coming to a screeching halt. Yeah. and then once you have that kind of figured out, bring that immediately to the owner or the architect and just let ’em know, Hey, this is an issue. And it might not always be supply chain issues. It could be, you know, just mistakes that were made by a subcontractor or by us as the gc. Yeah. but I think same rule applies there. It’s just getting out in front of it.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
You know, we’re not trying to hide anything. We’re gonna do the right thing. We don’t wanna Yeah. You know, ’cause if you try to hide a mistake, it’s just gonna compound and compound and it’s gonna come to light eventually, and then Yes. You know, that’ll sour a relationship with, with an architect or an owner or both. So I think it’s just you gotta be accountable and, and communicate that openly as quickly as you can. Yeah. That way it’s not a, a secret waiting for somebody to uncover. That’s a, that’s a great point. There’s so many different sets of eyes on a commercial construction project that somebody eventually is gonna see whatever it is. Yeah. You know, the issue is, and other than yourself, so it might, it might not come up to your one year, you know, warranty walk, but <laugh>, at some point it’s coming up and, and that’s right.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
The later it gets found, the the bigger of an issue it usually is. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and, you know, we, we never want to give off the, you know, the impression that we’re trying to be deceitful or, you know, mislead somebody. And, and, you know, we, we know that you know, John, the founder’s policy is always honesty and integrity first. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and of course that carries down to all of us in our roles too. So you know, that’s great to hear you say it out loud, that that’s, that’s our policy and that’s how you know, part of your taking care of issues when they come up is being, you know, honest, full disclosure. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You know, it’s problems, solution and communication, you know? Yeah. So that’s awesome. All right. So in your experience then what would separate a, a good project manager from a great project manager?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Still trying to learn those myself, but <laugh>, I would say a few of the qualities that, that really make a, a really great project manager would be, like we just talked about, you have to be good communicator and you have to be willing to be honest, and you have to be accountable to yourself. Yes. I try to always, if I make a mistake, I own it right away and and move on from it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I think after that, you know, being organized, we talked about all the paperwork and everything else that’s involved in the process mm-hmm <affirmative>. So if you’re not able to, to keep that organized in some sort of way to where you can make sure that the things are getting done that are supposed to and going to the people it’s supposed to I think, you know, obviously that goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah. And then after that, I think you just have to be willing to, to learn every day. Absolutely. There’s lessons out there, whether you’ve been doing it for three days or 30 years. That’s right. You can still learn something new Yeah. Every single day if you are looking for it. Yeah, that’s right. And really just trying to log all those in your brain to, to go back to on, on different projects because, you know, you might not run into that issue for another 10 years, but you know that on this project you dealt with it. So yeah. It’s, I guess that kind of comes down to a, a mental organization of sorts. But yeah, I mean that’s, I think those are kind of three of the, the bigger things that, and I would say another one is just being levelheaded. Yeah. there’s a time and place to, you know, when pressure’s on, maybe get a little fired up here and there, but I think overall you have to maintain a, a more level headed approach ’cause Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
You know, we’re all human, so maybe, maybe an architect might be coming at you and, you know, they’re having a bad day or an owner, or Yeah. Sometimes it might be coming from us to them, so, yeah. You know, and that just kind of makes the project not enjoyable for anyone and it, it, it can be detrimental to a project. Yeah. So I think coming at things with just a level head, being able to quickly problem solve mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, because almost every day there’s some kind of issue that you gotta figure out. Yes. so I think just being able to do those things for sure. There’s definitely a way to be assertive without being aggressive. And that’s really, again, it’s, yeah. It’s more to the art of being a great pm Yeah. That’s a fine line. Yeah, for sure. Trying to walk back, it’s, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Learning how to be really well versed at having difficult conversations without that turning into a fight. Yeah. You know, sometimes you gotta talk about stuff that really just stinks. Like you just don’t mm-hmm <affirmative>. I don’t want to go there, but I have to. Yeah. But it, yeah. But if you’re a jerk about it, then you know. Exactly. It doesn’t, like you said, you can be assertive without necessarily being aggressive, rude about Yeah. Certain things. ’cause It’s not what you say a lot of times. It’s how you say it. So nobody wants to work with a, a jerk <laugh>. That’s right. That’s right. Good deal. All right. So let’s talk a little bit about leadership itself and, and culture. So how do you keep morale up on the site when, when things aren’t, you know, the pressure’s on, you’re, you’re up against deadlines. You’re, you know, like you said, you had delays in supply chain stuff, so now the whole schedule is being, you know, what they like to call in the industry being compressed mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
And, and of course, the temptation when things get compressed is to cut corners, you know, look for, look for ways to do stuff. Something, you know, maybe faster than what you normally would. Right. You can’t take the time with it and do as good a job. So, you know, that’s the temptation and the pressure. How do you, how do you keep morale up and how do you keep people wanting to do their best when the pressure’s really ramping up? I would say that it kind of goes back to those expectations in the beginning. Obviously expectations can change throughout a project, depending on, you know, different factors, materials, whatever. But yeah, I think as long as you’re pressuring people to meet realistic expectations mm-hmm <affirmative>. I think that goes a long way for the people that you’re putting that pressure on. You know, I think it, it makes them more willing to go out there and, and bust their behinds to get it done.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Whereas if you’re putting a completely unrealistic expectation on, you know, I want you to frame hang tape, float, finish, paint this wall, you know, by the end of today <laugh>, you know, that’s not even possible. Yeah. So I think that goes a long way in just kind of letting people know where your, where your head’s at as a pm that you’re a reasonable person. You’re not just yelling just to yell. Yeah. but I think too, it starts, you know, with the culture that’s in the company to begin with, like you said earlier, we kind of have a, a great culture here with we’re accountable, we own it to our mistakes. We’ll do the right thing, even if it’s to our own detriment sometimes, you know? Oh, yeah. But we want to do the right thing for the owner to where they have the, the right overall pro product Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
That they’re happy with. So, for sure. I think leading in the field in those pressure situations, you know, kind of stems from just the everyday culture that you have in the office. So, yeah. For sure. So how, or what kind of advice would you give you know, somebody who’s kinda new to the management side of managing teams and construction? Because we, you know, how diverse, like even just your subs alone mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or a diverse group of people. Like, they range from all super organized and meticulous to, you know, very sloppy and mm-hmm <affirmative>. And hard, you know, hard to get, you know, on the job at times. And, you know, you just have this wide range of personalities and stuff. How do you, how do you manage that? Yeah, so I would say that one of the biggest things for a new PM to, to be good and to gain that respect from those trades.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
‘Cause Honestly, if, if they don’t respect you as a pm no matter how old you are, then they’re not necessarily gonna listen to you when you ask ’em to do stuff or ask ’em to change something because you feel it’s, you know, done the incorrect way or whatever. So yeah. I think one of the biggest things you can do as a new PM is just really sit back and listen to your, to your subcontractors, to your superintendent, to architects, engineers, you know, especially those that are, that are older than you that have been doing it for 20, 30, 40 years. Sure. I think that goes a long way and showing a little bit of humility, but also you can learn a ton. Yes. If you just sit back, if you’re always kind of trying to pipe in there and, and say what, you know, that you learned out of a textbook, you know, that might not necessarily be the, the, the right thing and trying to be the smartest guy in the room all the time.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah. Yeah. But if your focus is only that, then you’re, you’re missing out on all that knowledge that they’re sharing and Absolutely. There’s a lot of ’em out there that are just a wealth of knowledge. Yes, for sure. So I think that’s one of the bigger things. And obviously, like I said, the, I think being a personable pm is, it goes a long way as well with Yeah. Kind of disarming architects and owners and mm-hmm <affirmative>. And building that trust and that as well goes a long way when you have an issue. If you have a, a good relationship with the owner mm-hmm <affirmative>. Then maybe that issue is not such a big deal. Whereas if you’re, you know, not as personable with them, or they don’t feel that trust or that relationship, that issue could be a big thing, but they’ll, they’ll give you a little more slack.
Speaker 2 (25:58): More insights General Contractors Baton Rouge.
And I mean, we see it kind of on every project, if, you know, we start fostering that relationship right away. Yeah. Especially if we’re doing like a design build, you know, we’ll have a client in here Yeah. You know, 4, 5, 6, 7 times maybe before we ever break ground on their site. So that relationship’s kind of already established. But yeah, even on a, on a public bid, you know, at that OAC meeting mm-hmm <affirmative>. That very first one, you, you just try to make that impression that, hey, we’re, we’re trustworthy, we’re honest people, we’re gonna do this, you know, the best way we can, we’re gonna think through it and we’re gonna keep you involved in the process to where we’re not, you know, just doing things that you’re finding out about later. And yeah. Again, when you run into inevitable issues mm-hmm <affirmative>. I think that can go a long way.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And, and just keeping everybody a little more mellow than, than they would be. Yeah. I think trust and, and those relationships is, are, is really tied to confidence. And so, like, like you’re saying, ha having that meeting with them, setting the expectations and letting them know that you, you’re thinking about these things from their perspective already. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You recognize that there will be issues, there will be problems that have to be resolved, and you’re letting them know that you’re gonna do that in a positive, constructive way, and that you’re gonna be open and honest about it. Yeah. And that builds confidence, and the confidence is what gives them trust. And like you, like you were saying, you know, you get on the wrong side of, you know, an owner or an architect. Yeah. It’ll snowball quick if you’re Yeah. If you get on that wrong side, then, then every little problem becomes a big one.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
And Yeah. If you’ve looked at enough spec books, you understand that it’s kind of look like, like looking in a law book mm-hmm <affirmative>. There’s always some law in there I can apply to you. Yeah. You know? Yeah, for sure. They can definitely, if you aggravate me, so they’ll make me get the spec book out, <laugh>. Yeah. They can stick it to us for sure. <Laugh> for sure. That’s right. So very good. That’s that’s good advice. So you know, if you are a young, a young person out there and you’re just getting into project management definitely heed that advice about the relationship thing and you know, have your ears open more than your mouths open <laugh>. And a lot of times you’re gonna, it’s a good way to put it. Yeah. You’re gonna have a good outcome if you do that more often than not.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
So, yeah. I think having a little humility too, don’t be afraid to long way say, I don’t know. That’s right. Yes. You know, there’s no, nothing wrong with saying, I don’t know That’s right. But I’m gonna go figure it out for you. Exactly. And then you consult with, with those people that that do know. That’s right. But pretending to know is not, not good. It doesn’t go that far. No. Yeah. Especially in this industry, and it can get you in some serious trouble. Absolutely. So you don’t, don’t wanna do that. So so how does Kelly construction group’s culture affect the way that you lead then? Yeah. So I think we’ve kind of already touched on it, but Yeah. Just briefly, you know, John, our owner, he, he is built a culture here of, of, like we said, openness, honesty, you know, doing the right thing and, and just putting out a really good final product that, that we can all be proud of.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah. so that naturally just kind of blends itself into every part of a job. I also think our culture here is, is really light. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Construction can be really, really stressful and Yes. And busy. Yes. At times. So yes, I think it’s good that we’re able to kind of, you know, in this office, take a deep breath and, and, and relax and bring things to John. You know, if I make a mistake Yes. Might be a $10,000 mistake that I made. Yeah. And some companies, you wouldn’t even bring that to ’em, you would just pack up your desk and, and <laugh>, you know, and leave because you know that, that you’re gonna be outta there after that. Yeah. There’s no room for error. It’s with some companies Yes. It’s very refreshing and it takes a good bit of the pressure off Yes. Of an already, you know, stressful job to know that Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Hey, I can make mistakes, obviously we’re gonna try our best to not, but everyone does at some point Yeah. Whether it’s a big one or a small one, or somewhere in between. So it’s just really good to have that from an owner. Yes. And then as a project manager, that’s kind of instilled in me, you know, with subs to be a little, maybe a little bit more patient. Yeah. maybe sometimes to my detriment <laugh>. But just to understand that at the end of the day, there’s, we’re all human, so Yeah. Whether I’m making a mistake on a submittal, approving the wrong thing, or, you know, they’re doing the wrong process of install or something in the field, and Yeah. It definitely happens. Yeah. It happens, but it, it doesn’t have to be the end of the world. World Yeah. Catastrophic, you know, and it’s, it’s always amazed me that there’s a huge difference between just a business owner and an owner or a founder of a business that actually understands how business works.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And somebody that really understands business understands that failure is a prerequisite to success. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Most of the most successful, you know, businesses and and CEOs out there in the world failed hundreds of times before they finally succeeded. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So if the same is true of, of, you know, positions like this, like a project manager, you have to be able to make mistakes or you’re never gonna hone your craft at being a great pm. And so if you’re in an environment where you just, you’re, it’s not tolerated well, that’s gonna be a high, that’s just a pressure cooker. Yeah. It’s just gonna be a high turnover environment mm-hmm <affirmative>. And we all know companies like that where, you know, you see guys bounce around from construction company to construction company because, you know, they made a mistake and got let go. Yeah. And the reality is, is that in this industry, when you make a mistake, yeah, there might be a pretty decent price tag attached to it, but you have, at the end of the day, you have to weigh, you know, the what was the value of that.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And if, and if you have a, a good culture and you’re the people that you have you know, staffed up with or conscientious people like yourself, then you have to understand that that was a, a learning moment mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, and, and whatever that price of that education was, you know, ultimately it’s, it’s up to the business owner to decide if it was worth it. But more often than not you know, if the culture’s developed right, and, and the owner is staffing with people that, you know, fit that culture, it’s gonna be worth it because we know that that’s going to shape and mold yeah. That position into something that’s really, you know, gonna become more effective down the road. And that’s what we’re looking for. We want to build something that’s lasting and Yeah. Sustainable personal relationships. Yes. And we we’re not looking for the quick fix and, and you know, rule by force or whatever, you know, that mentality is so, and I think John sees, you know, he values the personal relationship in his employees, and I think, you know, to your point about how does that get translated down is I think as PMs and superintendents, you know, that personal relationship with our subcontractors and our vendors becomes equally important.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Absolutely. That way, you know, your subs are gonna make mistakes like we’ve talked about. So just valuing that relationship to where, Hey, on this next project, we’re still gonna use you. You know, it’s not like, oh, you made this one stake, so you’re cut from the list. If we did that, then we would have no subcontractor list. And yeah, there would probably be no general contractors either <laugh>. We’d have to start our own mechanical division. Yeah. You know, so I think it just passes down, like you said, from starts at the top and goes down. Absolutely. All right. Cool. Well, let’s, let’s move on to talk a little bit about tech and tools. So just give us a little brief synopsis about the systems and, and tech tools that you have that help you get your job accomplished. Yeah. So we, we use a construction software called Red Team.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
That’s obviously where I do 90% of my work. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It’s got, you know, built in billing, scheduling, RFIs, submittals. Yeah. It’s got a place where the superintendents can go in there and do a progress report every day. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. They include all their notes. I’m able to go in there and add my notes. Yeah. You know, this submittal was, was sent in and this one was approved and that kind of thing. So that’s where most of our I guess management happens from. The other 10% is still on the computer. You know, we use Yeah. A lot of like bluebean PDF review software and Outlook <laugh>. Yeah. I think kind of industry standard for the most part. Sure. I mean, that’s mostly what we do is in that, that red team software. Yeah. It’s nice to have everything in one place and be able to get into a project and, and everything you’ve done is right there.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah. You can reference it really quickly and, and it keeps that record, you know, of projects from five, 10 years ago. We can still Yes. You know, sometimes it hits your brain when you’re looking at something on one job, oh, we did this on this one, and then you can go back and look at, you know, how you did it. And our, our superintendents are good about putting photos in of Yeah. You know, walls before they get closed up or anything like that, so you can pretty much see just about anything you need to on those reports. Yes. and, and Red Team keeps all those for us. So it’s, yeah, it’s really nice. Definitely a good reference to go back to. Yeah. Not only catalogs, you know, written data, but it catalogs images as well. There’s days where it fights me <laugh> sometimes, but no, overall it’s a really good tool to have.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And yeah, just being able to go back and look at projects from, you know, years past mm-hmm <affirmative>. And how we handled certain problems or whatever. Yeah. Is, is helpful even on, you know, projects that you’re doing today. Yeah. other than that we just kind of use basic, you know, outlook for all of our emails and mm-hmm <affirmative>. Some sort of PDF reviewing software, either Adobe or Bluebeam we use a lot. So yeah, those are kind of the, the main things that we deal in. Good. Pretty basic, but all very effective stuff really like Red team and it’s come a long way. It continues to evolve. And I imagine like with the, you know, the advent of AI coming online mm-hmm <affirmative>. I, I would imagine it’s just a matter of time before we see some sort of automation stuff happening with Red Team with AI as well.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Yeah. I would imagine that would be coming fairly soon as well. And now you use Red Team, you know, daily. Have you seen any of that yet? Like, have they you know, put any processes together or anything with, with AI or Not yet? Not that I’ve really seen. I kind of stick to the things that I know yeah, I’d say they’ve made like some quality of life improvements over the last couple years. They are responsive, you know, if there’s an issue, we can chat with the help thing mm-hmm <affirmative>. And sometimes you will see that implemented into the software, which is you know, which is cool. Yeah. But I would say for the most part it’s just been quality of life type improvements that they’ve made. Yeah. But I would imagine, like you said, that there’s some sort of big AI tool that’s coming.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Yeah. Hopefully it’ll be helpful. Yeah. There’ll definitely be some integration there eventually, so. All right. Well let’s get back to, you know, the, the personal stuff. We like to dive in on the personal. So what’s the most unexpected lesson that you’ve learned in this position, in this role? I think one of the most unexpected lessons is the number of lessons that you’ve learned on this job. Yeah. Like I said earlier, you can endless supply, right? Yeah. Basically, if you’re, if you’re looking for ’em, even if you’re not looking for ’em, you still end up with at least one lesson learned every day. So I gotcha. Is there any that jump out at you in particular as being just really exceptional or, or they’re all pretty exceptional at the time? <Laugh> yeah. They’re always exceptional, but I mean, there’s one, for instance, I just made a mistake, you know, reviewing a, a door and frame submittal, those are my favorite.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah. But it was a mistake that I had just made on a previous project, and I just made that same mistake again. And it, it really ate me up because I knew better this time, you know? Yeah. The first time you can kind of give yourself a little leeway, but this time it, it really, it’s frustrated me a lot, so I’ve had to reca it <laugh>, yeah. Maybe make some better notes to her going forward. I I, I don’t make that mistake again, but I mean, the reality of it is sometimes you’re gonna make the same mistake more than once. Yeah. Especially still learn from it, see it every, every couple years or whatever. Yeah. And that’s kind of the tough part. Some of these lessons you might not do the same thing again for another 10 years on a, on a project.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
So it’s trying to just mentally catalog everything and, and be able to come back to it when you see it. Yeah, you bet. Doors are tough one. I know that was tough for me coming from, you know, residential mm-hmm <affirmative>. And you know, handing a door in residential is, to me, you’re very straightforward and simple, but not so in commercial construction, it, it’s almost counterintuitive. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. The way it’s done. And there’s so many different, I mean, residential doors, there’s really only so many ways you can make ’em, but commercial doors Yeah. Come in all shapes and sizes, that’s for sure. And you usually end up with all different shapes and sizes on one project somehow. That’s right. <Laugh>. Yeah. It’s very challenging. Yeah, for sure. All right, cool. So what do you love most about working in the construction industry? I mean, one of the biggest things is just having that tangible, you know, evidence of the work that you’re putting in.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah. even if, even if you’re in the office most of the time and you’re not actually the one, you know, building structures mm-hmm <affirmative>. It’s still nice to know that you went, you had a part in going from an empty field to a, to a new building that, that the owner’s gonna use for, you know, accomplish their dreams of, of their business or whatever. So yeah, I think that’s my favorite part and one of the most rewarding. But two, I really enjoy how it’s, it’s not the same thing every day. Every project truly is different. Yeah. For sure. And unique. And you could build two of the same exact buildings right next to each other, and chances are they’re gonna have their own unique challenges to go with them. For sure. Yeah. I enjoy that. It keeps things fresh and it, it kind of keeps you on your toes and it, again, it just going back to it helps you learn a lot pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Sure. Cool. So if you weren’t a project manager, what do you think you’d be doing? I don’t know. It took me a long time to realize that this is probably where I’d even end up, but, which is why I went in the fire department in the first place. So I would imagine that I would probably have been a career firefighter Hmm. With some sort of, you know, handyman type business on the side. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Or a, you know, furniture making business or something to that effect. Yeah. Basically every firefighter’s got a side job, <laugh>. Sure. When I was doing a, you know, I cut grass on the side and did a little bit of handyman stuff like that. Yeah. I think I would’ve tried to establish more of a business, but I think I would’ve cut the fire department as well. Okay. All right.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Well we’re glad you, you decided to, you know, pursue PM ’cause we have you on our team and, and you’re definitely an asset to our team. Appreciate that and we’re glad you’re here. So, any final words for the, the folks listening and particularly if there’s other young folks out there that are thinking about a career in commercial construction and particularly looking at someday being a pm Yeah, I would just say, you know, try to dive in as much as you can. Learn wherever you can, you know, if you can get a summer job working out in the field or shadowing somebody or Yeah. You know, even if it’s just pure manual labor, I mean, just all that stuff is super helpful to learn. Yeah. I kind of shadowed a carpenter for a couple years, like I said, while I was at the fire department doing some side jobs and it, that knowledge was a good base for me to have.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
But you can also dive into it with, with zero experience, just experience. You have to be willing to have that humility and, and be able to learn from those around you and and respect those around you that have been doing it. Yeah, it’s a great career. I really enjoy it and yeah, pretty fulfilling career. And if you like to see stuff like you say, get built, it’s a great opportunity to actually see a result for something that you’re attached to. So, yeah. And that’s very rewarding. I mean, and commercial’s kind of cool ’cause we get to drive around and, you know, in different areas of, of town and, and even in different towns and, you know, sometimes we’ll get to see something that we participated in getting built. So it’s kind of rewarding one, it’s cool too. I mean, even I find myself on my days off when I’m in a commercial building, I’m looking up and, you know, trying to figure out how they did this or why they might have designed it this way or Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:19): Great discussion General Contractors Baton Rouge.
You know, so I think it’s, I think part of it’s kind of ingrained in me mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, the construction side of it. So Yeah. You never look at even a, a restaurant the same mm-hmm. After you get into commercial construction and and you know, get on the PM side where you’re, you know, really getting into the detail of the plans and all that. Everything you walk into every structure, you’re constantly looking at the mm-hmm. You know, the ceiling grid and all that stuff and Yes. Trying to figure it out so out. Cool. Well, we really appreciate you, man, sitting here. We know you’re not huge on the, on the, you know, camera, whole camera thing and, and all that. And but we’re grateful that you did. And I’m sure there’s gonna be some young people out there that get the opportunity to see this and are gonna get inspired by you know, all the good things that you said about it.
Speaker 2 (44:05): Wrapping it up General Contractors Baton Rouge.
It really is a great position. It’s a great opportunity and there’s definitely a lot of opportunity in this industry. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Out there. I mean, to me, even though we, it is a competitive market in the Baton Rouge, greater Baton Rouge area, and we have also a lot of you know, out state firms that come in here from time to time for different reasons or whatever, whether it’s disaster work or whatever franchise work. Even despite all that, there’s still, there’s still a feeling of a great opportunity in this industry. So, and, and I think that’s because I think there’s always room for someone that wants to really be excellent. Yeah. And that’s something that, you know, we’ve been wanting to do and work towards is being excellent in, in our field. And I think that’s why we continue to grow as a company because there is definitely a demand for that. You know, somebody that goes that extra mile and really cares. So anyways, that, that’s gonna conclude episode nine of the K-Cup. We’re glad that y’all took a few minutes to check it out and again, we appreciate it, Cameron. Yep. Thank you. And come back and see us next week. We’ll have another great episode for you. We’ll drop it in a week. Thanks. Adios <laugh>. Bye. See ya. See ya.