Speaker 1 (00:00): Here we go with another episode of the K Cup General Contractors Baton Rouge.
<Silence> Hey, welcome back to the K-Cup episode 14. We got an interesting show for you today. We’re gonna be talking about really a very serious and you know, critical step to being a successful commercial construction contractor, a GC general contractor. And that is regarding qualifying your subcontractors for a project. And we’re gonna get into the why, why you want to do that, and you’re going to, you know, bring out some highlights about that. And then we’re, after that, we’re gonna offer some practical advice on the how, how, how to actually go about the process of qualifying a subcontractor. Before we do that, though, I want to get into a couple of external forces that are, you know, really making it necessary for us to do our due diligence and make sure that we’re qualifying subs
Speaker 1 (01:03): Subs are so important General Contractors Baton Rouge.
To prevent problems once a project starts. And the reason why is because both of these external forces are really applying a lot of downward pressure to our margins and profits in the industry, in the commercial construction industry. And so let’s get into those first. The two, the two issues that I want to discuss are labor and materials. So talking about labor first. You know, we’re on, we’re about 10 years into the steady decline of labor in the construction industry. And it’s kind of hit critical mass now because it’s gotten to the point where, although, you know, these so-called labor brokers are out there that can get boots on the ground and can get, you know, you know, warm bodies to a project. The problem that we’re seeing is that there’s a, a sharp decline in skill labor. So you might get 10 guys to our project, but only one of ’em may hopefully have some level of skill for the scope that they’re being sent there with.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
And then the, the rest of the, the crew that’s there with them are merely acting as you know, general laborers trying to support whatever this, this, you know, this lead is doing there on the project. So, and we know that we’ve experienced this ourselves, and it ends up being very in inefficient. And it just kind of puts a bottleneck in the progress of the project. So, labor’s a huge problem. The, the other problem about it is that it’s at an all time high. We’re, we’re paying premium prices for really unskilled labor in a lot of situations. So that is you know, the big, the big picture of that is that it is obviously with margins already pretty thin in the commercial construction industries, particularly in the competitive public bid sector. It’s even putting more pressure on those margins and and pressing them down even further.
Speaker 1 (03:09): These external forces affect General Contractors Baton Rouge.
The other side of that is materials. Materials material suppliers, material producers for the construction industry underwent a lot of merger and acquisitions during the pandemic. So while everyone was kind of busy, you know, dealing with, with the pandemic and all that stuff, a lot of these big corporations were, were acquiring smaller companies. And it’s gotten to the point now where these, these companies have consolidated to the point where, you know, some of the normal fluctuations that we used to see with materials, you know, they would spike during, you know, supply chain issue times or, you know, where, where there was this supposed shortage of material, you know, although there, there’s probably tons of it sitting in the yard somewhere, <laugh>. But anyways, you know, it could be manufacture shortage, whatever. But during those times, we would see spikes, and then we would see a leveling off of those markets and, and prices dropping, you know, sharply. General Contractors Baton Rouge have felt the pain from this.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
And a lot of times getting back to historic lows where they were months before all this happened. We haven’t seen that with this, this latest phenomenon of, of material suppliers consolidating prices are pretty, staying pretty, pretty high, pretty firm in their current position with no sign of really letting up. So when you put that together, labor paying a premium for labor, and there being really a shortage, a drastic shortage of skill labor, and then you combine that with the higher cost of materials in neither one of those problems having any light at the end of the tunnel in the short term it, it really makes it just super important for general contractors to make sure they’re qualifying their subs and preventing the preventable, making sure to the extent possible that once a project starts, you’re not gonna get into a situation where, you know, now this subcontractor, because they’re not performing and they’re having issues, is now costing you a, a big slice of that already thin margin.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So anyways, those are the external forces that I wanted to bring out because you’re seeing the starting point is that we’re already starting here with, with a lot of downward pressure on the, on the heads of general contractors in this industry. And so now we’re gonna get into the nuts and bolts of, and talk first about why it’s important to qualify your subcontractors as a general contractor. And then secondly John’s gonna bring out some points about how you can actually go about this, what the process is for making sure that you know, you’re doing your due diligence and you’re having at least a, a good opportunity to hopefully have a successful project with the subs that you’re gonna, you know, enter into the project with. So let’s go ahead and get started about the why, John, why do you see it being imperative that a general contractor qualifies or subs?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, I think that I mean, obviously this is something I feel like we say on every show. Here we are saying it again, but <laugh>, you know, you’re really only as good as your worst sub. And, and it is just true. I mean, you know, you can have a job going really well and, and one sub can really kind of get it off mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and not that not that you can always blame every issue on the job on a sub, but it, it can happen. Yeah. So, you know, to me, one of the biggest reasons that it’s the most important to, you know, to make sure you’re working with those qualified subs is just reputation. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I mean, you spend a whole lot of time trying to build your reputation in, in our case here, you know, 17 years we’ve tried to build a reputation, and I feel like we’ve done a, a pretty good job.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
We have a pretty decent reputation as far as I know out there. Yeah. But but it, but one bad situation, and it can go away like that. Yeah. so when I think about reputation and, and, and who it’s important to, I mean, you know, I’m thinking about the client. You, you always wanna be able to do repeat work with a client. Yeah. So you need that reputation to, to, to be upheld. Absolutely. you know, architects, engineers, you know, people that were first working facility managers if you, if you can’t keep a good re reputation with those guys, they’re, they’re not gonna put another job in front of you. They’re not gonna put another opportunity out there. Yeah. And and that’s the lifeblood of our business. I mean, we need, we need more opportunities. We need people to have confidence in us, in, in what we do.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Absolutely. so that’s, you know, that’s big reputation for subcontractors. I mean, we wanna be working with the best subcontractors, and if, you know, you continuously have jobs that are dragging or, or, you know, off schedule because you know, you have a subcontractor that wasn’t qualified, that’s not managing their project and not staying on top of things you know, if that happens a couple of times, all of a sudden some of your key subs, you know, may not be as interested in getting on a project that they know is gonna be delayed or that they know is, is, you know, not gonna hit the timeline. Yeah. so reputation’s big in that manner. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You know, and just as important as all of those, you know, your reputation for your company with your employees. I mean, you know, in a big company, a lot of times employees don’t know, you know, that a sub was hired that was bad or whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
They just, they’re just sitting in the monthly meeting and, and see that the company’s not hitting its numbers. And Yeah. And all of a sudden, you know, a couple of quarters in, they may be like, man, you know, I don’t think we’re ever gonna hit our numbers. And it’s, and it’s really just, it’s really just based on, you know, a few bad decisions or a few bad situations that that could have been avoided. Yeah. So, to me, reputation is, is the biggest why, or, you know, the biggest and re the biggest reason for making sure you get qualified sub because it really, it really goes a long way. And, you know, making a lot of this stuff makes sense and hit your numbers and your margins and, and all this stuff. Yeah. For sure. You know, the o the other part of it is just reducing risk.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I mean, as a general contractor, you know, we’re responsible for the job and, you know, we bring in key subs to, to, you know, carry risk and do things on these projects that we don’t know how to do. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And you’ve already alluded to it, and we’ve seen it, you know, time and time again on a couple of projects where, you know, we hire somebody to do a job and, you know, technically they know how to do it, but they have one person that knows how to do it. Yeah. And they have a full labor force that really don’t know what they’re doing Yeah. Or what they’re doing. And and, and that’s, that’s an issue. I mean, it, it, you know, bodies don’t get it done. That’s right. And it’s just a big issue that we’ve seen recent, more recently, a few times. And then, you know, just job site conditions, safety all that, all that stuff goes, goes hand in hand. Good, good subs are just gonna make a, you know, a huge difference. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (10:22):
For sure. So those are some great reasons why you wanna, you know, qualify your subs. Reputation’s huge risk is huge. You know, you read about risk in articles about the industry, and you hear people talk about it, but when you live it and experience it, you see it unfold sometimes because a sub, like you said, is, is not, you know, performing to their potential or you know, simply not qualified. And, and somehow we’ve gotten partnered with them you see that risk unfold and it can affect, like, I think you’d mentioned bonding, you know, when it comes to reputation with your bonding company. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (11:02): Don’t miss this point General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Yeah. No, I, yeah, bonding is a, bonding is huge. I mean, we’ve seen it time and time again, and I say time and time again, I mean, it’s happened a time or two, you know, where a material, a material supplier for a sub, you know? Yeah. Specifically the beer companies that you kind of referred to earlier mm-hmm <affirmative>. They, the, you know, they’ve been doing this for a long time. They don’t really, they don’t really play around. They just, they go straight to the, you know, straight to the source. Yeah. So we’ve seen it to where, you know, we get our bonding company’s reaching out, saying, Hey, what’s going on on this project over here? You know, A, B, C, whoever is not paying their bill. And Yeah. You know, we getting a, we’re getting a notice. So at that point we’re scrambling reaching out to, you know, material suppliers trying to see what’s going on.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And That’s right. That’s an important reputation to, to keep, you know, that reputation that you have with your bonding company is important mm-hmm <affirmative>. And even though, I mean, you may have paid all your bills, you may have everybody paid up, you know, when they get that call or when they getting that notice there, there, there’s probably a little light bulb in their brain. It’s like, okay, you know, what’s what’s happening with Kelly Construction or what’s happening with whoever, why are we getting this notice? Exactly. And you wanna avoid that as much as
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Possible. Absolutely. And I, I talked about at the beginning of the show about the downward pressure that we’re seeing on margins from labor and materials. So maybe you can talk a little bit about that too, about, you know, how to protect the margin and why it’s important, you know, this is part of the why really. Yeah. why, you know, why you wanna qualify that sub, how does that, you know, qualifying of your sub affect your margin stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:43): Got to hit your numbers General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Yeah. So we did talk about hitting the numbers and doing all that kind of stuff. So yeah. Protecting the margins. I mean, as a general contractor, you know, basically we make money on, on how long or how fast, you know, how long does it take us to do it, or can we do it quicker? Yeah. And the length of the project is kind of where we, we make money. You know, we, we, we I guess we bid it based on thinking it’s gonna take this amount of time. If we can do it quicker than that, you know, we beat our numbers. Yeah. If we, if it takes us longer than that, then we lose. Yeah. so, you know, a good sub can help keep this thing on schedule or even beat schedule. And at that point, you know, we can start to make money.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
The other, the other thing though, it goes back to reputation. I mean, when you’re talking about protecting margins, it may lead to another job. I mean, if we go over here and we hit a home run with this client, then we may be able to do another job right. Behind it with ’em. Yeah. And and, and, you know, go hit the margins on that one. Yes. But it’s not, if, if we don’t go there and perform, then they may give that job to a competitor or somebody down the road and, and now all of a sudden, you know, we lost some revenue that was likely ours. And Yeah. It just didn’t happen because the job didn’t go as planned. Yeah. And we may have executed perfectly. Yeah. But, you know, that one situation put us in a, in a bad spot.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah. It gives you a black
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Eye. And, and I, again, I don’t wanna sit here and, and think that we’re putting all the bad stuff that happens on projects to subs and that kind of thing. Yeah. We’re not doing that, but we’re just talking about the importance of, you know, why it’s important Yeah. To make sure you get that qualified sub. Oh yeah. Absolutely. ’cause we all know that everything’s not gonna go perfect. No, for sure. But if, if you do your due diligence and you make sure you have qualified people, even even situations that could be a little bit sticky usually turn out pretty decent. Yeah. but if not, then they can go really south, you know?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah. It’s all about minimizing risk, because like we talked about, margins are already thin, so we gotta minimize as much risk as we can to keep what margin we are working towards winning by getting the project completed in the allotted time. So those are all great whys, let’s go ahead and talk about some nuts and bolts now about you know, so anyone that’s out there thinking about being a GC or is a GC and you want to know how, well, how do I go about qualifying my sub? What are some of the things I can do to actually get to the bottom of things and, and come away with a warm fuzzy about working with this person or knowing that you need to go in a different direction?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing that that you’re gonna wanna do is, you know, just review license insurances, just the basic requirements like that. I mean, okay. You know, all your top tier subs are gonna have all that kind of stuff taken care of. Yeah. They should be able to produce those kind of documents fast. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Within, you know, just very short amount of time after a request. Yeah. so, you know, it’s, if you do that and, and they can’t produce that fairly quickly, then, you know, that’s, that’s the first red flag. But generally speaking, you know, most of your good subcontractors are gonna be able to provide that information fairly quickly. Yeah. and that’s, that’s the first, the first step. I mean, that’s done real early on here in our office when we’re looking at somebody new mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that’s kind of the first step.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
You know, secondly, I, I like to go just to, just to meet the team type deal. Yes. Like, let’s, let’s bring in, you know, bring in the estimator, bring in the owner, maybe a pm let’s see who we gonna be working with. Let’s get a feel for everybody. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and I, you know, our process kind of stopped there for, for a lot of years. I mean, I would, we would bring in people and once we got a good feeling about it we’d roll with it <laugh>. But, you know, I think that, and you alluded to some of the other factors that’s really that’s really hampered, you know, the industry and, and even the subcontractor world, just material and labor. Yeah. so I think that, that, I really think that that’s changed the game some, or it definitely has, you know, it seems like it in the subcontractor pool.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But you know, we’ve, we’ve done those meetings a lot of times and, and, and had a lot of success with it. But I think what hap what ends up happening, and we’ve seen this, you know, once or twice unfortunately, is where we, we have a sub that comes in and we have the meeting and it goes really well, and, and you know, that these guys are good people or whatever, but these conditions that you’re alluding to end up popping their head up in the middle of this job mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it just, it just makes it to where they can’t perform. Yeah. and you know, pro, you know, I I was gonna say, a lot of times it’s, you know, newer subs and that kind of thing, but I don’t, I don’t even really think that’s the case. I mean, obviously newer subs are still learning the ropes and trying to get things in place, but Sure.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
It could happen to anybody. Exactly. but you know, that first meeting, those, those first meetings have served as well, but we have seen that, you know, good people, bad things can happen. Yep. Sure. So you really have to continue to do a little more due diligence and, and go a little bit beyond that first meeting. And, and that’s what we’ve found. And, and that’s what we’ve kind of started, started to do, you know, and, and there’s other things you can do. I mean, I think a huge thing that you can do is, is reach out to that, you know, reach out to that sub or ask ’em in that first meeting. Like, who, who are some of your suppliers? Like, gimme your top five suppliers. I mean, because you, you wanna make sure you’re requesting enough suppliers that, you know, you’re really getting a good, a good test.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Because if they’re only giving you one or two, they likely do business with these people all the time. And that’s probably their go-to people. You, you want to, you know, make sure you get enough suppliers and you could even just cold call some suppliers that, you know, they’re probably doing business with. I mean, yeah. It’s not hard to know, you know, where electrical people are buying their supplies Yeah. Or where steel guys are getting their steel or, yeah. There’s only so many sources where plumber guys are getting their plumbing material, you know, it’s not, it’s not that hard to figure it out. So yeah, just do a little due diligence and, and try to, you know, find out what their reputation is with their material suppliers you know, get some references as far as GCs mm-hmm <affirmative>. And again, it’s kind of the same thing.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean, if you ask, if you ask ’em for, you know, who give us five references, you’re probably gonna get their three best GCs that they’ve never had an issue with, but you could do a little additional work and, and, you know, maybe you’ve seen ’em on a job across town that you, you know, who the contractor was mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or whatever. Yeah. Like, reach out to those, you know, reach out to those guys and find out, you know, what’s the story? I mean, you know, were these guys good to work with? Yeah. something that we, we definitely have started doing and, and need to do a lot more of it because it’s, it’s really, it’s really important mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then, you know, another one is, and this one’s sometimes a little more difficult to to kind of get to because you just, you don’t like to ask about it.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But in this situation, I mean, business is business and, you know, find out what their financial strength is. I mean, you know, ask for some basic reports you know, see how long they take to pay their bills and you know, just get a good, you know, get a good, what’s their cash balance? I mean, can they, can they operate, you know, on a job, you know, of this size or whatever. Yeah. And I mean, I think that that’s, that’s important in any job, really. But I mean, specifically if you, you know, if you’re connecting with a subcontractor for six, $700,000 on the job, I mean, it’s gonna be very important to know that they can money secure material, that they can keep everybody paid, they can cash flow it. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think the qualified subs that we’re talking about, they don’t have, they don’t, they don’t mind sharing that information. They don’t mind showing you the, the financial stability they have. Yeah. so I think that that’s an important, important deal and specifically on, on a lot bigger jobs. Yeah. Is, is to have that understanding. Yeah. And, and that’s just, that’s just doing some very basic due diligence, you know? Yeah. so in my mind, that’s some of the, the bigger hows, if you will. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Those are all great points. You
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Know, one, one other one too that, you know, that’s big in our industry and as our company’s, you know, as our company has grown and, and we’ve kind of connected with bigger clients, you start to see it more and more. But safety, I mean, they wanna they want to know that, that you’re gonna come out and work in a safe manner. They want to know that you have a culture that’s safe. And, you know, we try to do that as a general contractor, but that needs to be one of the questions that you’re asking your subcontractors. You know, how concerned are you on safety? What do y’all do? To, to, you know, to create a safe work environment. And, you know, whatever information we get from ’em here in our office, we need to make sure that our field staff has that understanding of, of how they do it. Now, we know that our guys have our general safety you know, rules and, and understanding in place, but it’s gonna help that, that they know what, you know, how this subcontractor says they work so that they can ensure that they’re, they’re, you know, doing their part of the deal and they’re holding up to, you know, the safety culture that, that they kind of sold us on, if you will. Sure. you know, during the, the early process of selecting the sub. So, so safety’s huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah. Safety, I mean, I can see where that could be a huge time suck on the project for our superintendent that’s on the job. If he’s gotta manage sub, you know, a subcontractor’s team because they’re not working safely and they’re not wearing their PPE, you know, where, and rather than doing other things to help move the project along, he’s basically now relegated to, to being the babysitter and the safety manager for a subcontractor. So you want to get that straight in the beginning too, and, and get a feel for, you know, their culture about safety and their attitude towards it. You know, is it something they laugh off or is it something that they understand is, you know, serious matter and, and have, you know, repercussions if you’re not safe on the project. So those are some great how-tos. I like the you know, the basics.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Do your due diligence, licensing, permitting, things like that, meeting the team huge. You know, get a feel for, you know, who’s actually gonna be out there running the job. And, and you just see what their attitude’s like, and, you know, if they’re serious about their business and, you know, do they have a sense of urgency about getting projects done? And, you know, are they goal oriented when it comes to wanting to meet their, their marks and get, you know, get the project done so that they can move on to another, another job like we want to do, you know? Right. And and then calling this, you know, references, particularly with suppliers like you said, when you get into a, a contract where a sub has a, you know, a $500,000, a half a million dollar scope, you know, for, you know, a mechanical aspect of the job or something, it’s a lot of money.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
It is. And it’s not something you want to just, you know, say, ah, I feel pretty good about it. And just, you know, right. Move on from it. You need to do a little due diligence and, and make sure that this is really gonna happen and doesn’t leave you holding the bag. Again, like you’re, you know, you’ve talked about as far as the need, why, why to protect or qualify your subs mm-hmm <affirmative>. That margin is, is, you know, always there, you know, that’s like our baby that we’re trying to protect and get through that project in one piece. And and all these different things you talked about are all potential threats to the margin. And and you, you just can’t bear up under some of those things as far as, you know, if they come to fruition or whatever, or turn out to be a reality, then, then we know, you know, the result of that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
And that’s not making money. Right. We’re not out there to practice. We’re out there to make money, so, right. And and making money’s not a bad thing, you know? Right. Some people think that’s a bad thing, but that’s not a bad thing. That’s a good thing. That’s, that’s what pays the bills, keeps the lights on, and, and of course we know as GCs we put a lot of other people, you know, to work. Right. So it’s important that we make money and stay in business and, and be able to do that, so, right. So protect that margin at all costs. So anyways, any part, part and thoughts about you know, the importance of qualifying your subcontractors?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Well, one thing that kind of hit my brain where you were talking, and this is really not a how or a why, but it’s, it’s kind of like, how do you end up in that situation sometimes, or how we found ourselves in that situation, you know, with an unqualified sub. Yeah. You know, a lot of times it, it, it might go down, you know, go back to like, man, we need a job. And, you know, you end up using a number that you probably knew was maybe a little low Yeah. Or sub that you didn’t really know, didn’t have a, you know, they didn’t have a reputation because maybe they’re new, or for whatever reason a lot of pressure. So I would just say, don’t let you know, don’t let don’t let that situation drive you into a, a bad situation. Yeah. you know, if, if it means you’re gonna make a little less on a job, you have to use a little higher number or, or, you know, a more qualified sub, you know, have that thought process and, and, and kind of run through it before you just go put yourself in a bad situation because, you know, making a little less money in the beginning or planning for a little less money in the beginning may, may be a better situation than planning for pretty decent money, you know, working with a risky sub, because almost always that risky sub is gonna end up biting you the behind the project’s going to drag on.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah. You may have to cover some material costs, you may have to cover some something that, you know, maybe they damage somebody else’s work or whatever. Yeah. so just consider that in the beginning, you know? Yeah. if it feels like a red flag, it is probably a red flag. And, you know, go, go through this process and, and make sure you make sure you have the green light Yeah. With a sub
Speaker 1 (27:04):
For sure. You touched on something there that could really be the subject of a whole show itself. And but I think it’s really important just to briefly mention, is that like you’re saying, don’t get yourself in a situation and, and be tempted to take a number from a subcontractor that your gut’s telling you is probably not a good situation. And just think of across the industry, people practice that the margin probably wouldn’t be that thin. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah. And I mean, truthfully, this could, I mean, trickles down. This is not just necessarily leadership in the company, <laugh>, you know what I mean? It it is trickling down to, you know, your estimators. I mean, if an estimator’s feeling pressure, they hadn’t closed a job in a while or whatever Yeah. You know, that might make, that might be a call that they make. So I just caution against it, you know? Yeah,
Speaker 1 (27:55):
For sure. All right. Well, of course I had to, I had to cough right at the end.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, no, that’s no problem. That’s all
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Good. That must be the, that must be the sign to quit. We’ve,
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We’ve said enough.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Anyways, thanks for coming back and joining us for another episode. We’re glad you’re here. Hope that you found some value talking about this subject of qualifying subcontractors. It’s definitely something that we continue to work on here at Kelly Construction Group. We, we know that it’s, it’s an important metric that needs to be an important aspect of how you conduct business as a general contractor. And if you are a subcontractor watching this, know that, you know, we’re paying attention to this because it’s important. We also understand the challenges that you’re up against. We know that you definitely in the trades are being affected by the labor crunch and the, and the lack of skilled labor. So we understand that. But the best way to remedy that and to avoid problems that this could produce, is to communicate that. And let’s talk about it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Let’s be upfront when we have that meet the team time together. Let’s talk about the challenges with your labor and your team and stuff like that so that, you know, we can approach the job realistically, have realistic expectations, and maybe allow for that. And, and by doing that, actually are protecting our margin instead of letting something blow up into a problem that’s unforeseen. So anyways, hope you enjoyed the, the episode. We’ll be back here again next week with episode 15. Hope you come join us. We are now syndicated to several different podcasts, so you can check out the K-Cup on Spotify apple just a plethora. I think there’s 15 podcasts out there now, and we’re syndicated to all of ’em. So check us out. If you don’t wanna watch the, the video version, you can definitely listen to some of these episodes and get some, you know, some business insights that might help you if you’re in the construction industry, whether you’re a subcontractor, a material supplier, a commercial real estate broker, whatever. There’s, there’s some qual quality or valuable content there that you might benefit from. If anything, you just gain the insight of a general contractor and kind of get a feel for where they’re coming from and and, and that can’t hurt. So anyways, thanks for tuning in. We’ll catch you again in a week. Aios Aios.