Speaker 1 (00:00):
<silence> So, as a young contractor, I remember thinking, I couldn’t afford to hire, I didn’t think marketing made sense, and I thought any job would do. Those ideas cost me years of growth. And if I could go back, this is how I’d fix it. Starting at day one, you found the K-Cup. Let’s jump in. General Contractors Baton Rouge you’re not going to want to miss this episode of the K Cup
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, welcome back to the K-Cup episode 31. Today we’re talking about three things that we do differently if we were starting over today. And of course, John’s gonna make this, uh, a little more personal ’cause he is gonna talk about it from his perspective as, uh, the CEO of the company. But, uh, it’s really talking about, uh, you know, looking back with hindsight, hindsight’s 2020 of course, and picking out three areas where, uh, maybe taking a little different approach from the very beginning may have put you in a different position business wise earlier on, and maybe with, uh, I wouldn’t say less effort, but with maybe different effort or maybe making, uh, the effort that you’re exerting, uh, produce more return on, on the effort. So, yeah. So we’re gonna get into that. We have these three, uh, these three bullet points that we wanna talk about today that, that, uh, John’s gonna share from his past experience with being in business and, uh, and maybe not, uh, appreciating some of the things that you really need to focus on right from the get go. This is a great episode for all contractors including General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Uh, of course, being a builder and being a contractor in the beginning stages, a lot of times is different than being a business owner. There’s, there’s definitely a whole nother skill set there, right? That you have to develop. And like, everything, it takes a little bit of time, it just doesn’t happen magically. You just don’t, you know, take a pill and now you’re a business owner, you know, a great businessman or whatever. So, anyways, that’s what we’re gonna talk about. Let’s jump into this first point of these three things, business strategy and building for scale from day one. Uh, in that bullet point there, in that first point that we’re gonna talk about with business strategy and, and thinking in terms of how am I gonna make this thing grow? Uh, we’re gonna talk about, uh, the idea of staffing up earlier, investing in systems and processes before you ever think you really need them. You know, get ditch the, the legal pad and pen maybe, and, and, you know, get you a management software program. And then, uh, building financial buffers. And in addition to that, learning to appreciate how important it’s to understand what your real numbers are. You know, basically meaning what it really costs you to run your business so that you’d make sure you’re covering that before you start thinking any dollar you make is profit. So, right. So let’s go ahead and, and talk about business strategy and, and thinking about building for scale from day one.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah. So I mean, just thinking about just listening to you talk and, and thinking about, uh, how this whole thing got started. <laugh>, uh, before I jump into that first point about staffing up earlier, I mean, one thing I think that I would advise anybody to do different, and I wish I I would’ve, you know, done it a little different is, is actually understand, you know, how businesses operate, understand the different parts. And I mean, it kind of sounds crazy saying this out loud, but <laugh>, I mean, I thought that, uh, you know, I knew how to build, I, I’d been around it, uh, and I’d just go get jobs and make it happen. And, and we did. I mean, we did do that. That’s how we started off, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I get a job and I’d go do it. There was no, no real systems in place, but I knew the, you know, I know how construction works, I know what comes first, what goes last, that type of thing. Of course I was doing all this as a General Contractor Baton Rouge.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
And so I just really jumped off in it and, and done that for a number of years. Yeah. Uh, and it was as that continued to grow and, and my plate became, you know, to get more and more full Yeah. That I started to realize that I needed help, uh, but I didn’t wanna make the move. I didn’t feel like I could afford it. Yeah. But I, the thing that I would do first is I would really dive in, I would really read some business books or, or go get some ideas from some people that that’s already had a business. I mean, yeah. You know, we’re a gc a general contractor. I’ve never worked for a general contractor. So everything that we do here, we kind of just figured out on our own. Yeah. And, uh, and, and started to understand, you know, how the processes work.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Uh, but so with that being said, the first thing I would do is seek out some good advice, you know, from some people who’s already done it and, and, and understand that there’s more than just a trade to it, because we’re all pretty good at, at our trade, or, yeah. If, if you have something that you like, you’re good at it. But, but to your point that you opened up with, you know, being good at a trade and running a business is two very different things. Yeah. So I really wish I would’ve took a little more time and, uh, and understood that part of it. And, but as a, you know, 24-year-old, 25-year-old, you don’t, you don’t really think about that. That’s right. Yeah. Uh, but, but that’s, that’s what, how it would’ve started off different. Sure. Uh, but then as far as as the staffing up, like, I needed help for many years before I actually hired somebody.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Uh, and, and I was, you know, I just had the mentality that I couldn’t afford to hire anybody. There just wasn’t enough money there. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But, but the reality is, once I finally made the conscious effort to hire somebody, all of a sudden we saw a little growth, and then we hired somebody else, and all of a sudden we saw a little more growth. So once some of these responsibilities begin to fall off my plate, it opened up the avenue for me to go connect with more people and, and to grow the business. Hmm. And in addition to that, I had two other people or three other people trying to grow the business. Yeah. So now all of a sudden we had a team of people trying to grow what I’d been trying to grow by myself. Yeah. So that thought of not being able to move forward and not hire somebody that I probably literally fought for years, potentially really halted some growth that was, that could have happened, you know? Yeah. And I mean, I know that I was in, in business for quite a few years before I pulled the trigger on that, and I know that we’ve grown substantially since I did decide to, let’s make a hire and let’s, let’s, let’s bring somebody on board, you know? Yeah. For sure. So I would say that don’t, don’t let that stop you. Like, you have to have help. You have to be able to move, you know, move forward.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Yeah. So, uh, I’m just imagining that then hand, hand in hand with the, you know, really resisting, you know, that urge to, to hire somebody because it is a, it is a big step. You know, when you take on a, another human being and you’re taking on their, their, you know, their whole life’s gonna revolve around your business now, you know, because that’s how they’re gonna make their living. So it’s a, it’s a weighty responsibility, and I know you take that kind of thing seriously. So, uh, hand in hand with that though, is probably also, uh, the fact that you hadn’t staffed up probably also had you not really moving towards, you know, developing systems and processes or maybe even, uh, you know, getting a management software program or something like that to, to start managing the business, you know? So talk about that a little bit. How did that come on board for you when you, you kind of went from paper and pen and, you know, ruler to actually, you know Yeah. Managing it with, with technology or whatever, or whatever the first form was. You know,
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You got me laughing over here, <laugh>, I wouldn’t ever pay in a pen. <laugh>. No. My to-do list was paper and pen for a long time. There you go. Uh, no. Uh, so, you know, I feel like that I’ve always been pretty organized when it comes to, uh, you know, keeping my bids together, keeping my subcontracts together, that kind of stuff. Yeah. I always, I had a basic system, uh, that I used, uh, you know, in Windows that, that was fairly organized Good. Uh, that, that I was able to just stay, you know, stay organized, be productive. If people needed something, I had it. But where I think I can answer your question is as I begin to hire people, I, I guess I failed to realize that everybody likes to do stuff their own way. <laugh>.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You gotta standardize it, <laugh>. That’s
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Right. So I, I didn’t really have anything developed, even though I was organized and I did everything the same way, you know, job after job. Yeah. You’re consistent. I didn’t have that spelled out. I didn’t have it written into a system. And so the first hire that came on, I didn’t teach ’em that way. Yeah. And, and once I started realizing, man, I don’t really like the way that that’s going. Yeah. It was a really hard transition to be able to get me to teach that person the way I wanted to do it. Yeah. So that’s one of the things that I would definitely say has to happen is you have to understand your systems, even if it’s just you. Yeah. Understand your method, understand how you’re doing it, figure out the way you like it, figure out the way it works best. Yeah. And document it. Create it. Yeah. Make a video of it. Write it out. Yeah. You know, in, in a document. And when you make that first hire, have that person ready to go and say, this is how we do things. Hopefully everyone is catching this, including General Contractors Baton Rouge.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Um, so in hindsight, you would, you would have that thought in mind of, well, how would I show someone else how to do what I’m doing here? And then you’d set something up that you’d be able to actually say, look, this is how I want you to do this, and absolutely
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Do the same. I mean, I think the first time you wanna be able to walk somebody through it, you wanna be able to tell ’em, this is how we do things. Yeah. But you wanna have something that they can ultimately drop back to Yeah. When they’re in the middle of working that they can follow
Speaker 2 (09:22):
And you’re not around maybe.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
That’s right. Yeah. Uh, and you know, honestly, even as our company grows now, we still run into stuff where I’m like, man, we need to add that to our onboarding process so that when they come in Yeah. They already know how to do it. And it’s, it’s, they don’t have to create their own way. I mean, we’re still seeing that kind of stuff, you know, occasionally as, as we hire new people and do different things. So yeah, it’s definitely a system. Uh, it’s definitely something that you have to, you know, continuously work at, but I think that, you know, anytime you could get some systems in place and, and some very basic systems to your operations, it’s gonna serve you well. And, uh, I definitely feel like for sure in the first few hires, we lost lots of time with just repetitive training, uh, having to show, you know, somebody to do something two or three times. Yeah. Uh, and even just some of the processes, uh, you know, as far as how to bid, what subcontractors to use that kinda stuff. Yeah. If we could have had that spelled out, save a bunch of time and effort. Yeah. Uh, so I think that’s important to do. Again I hope you’re catching this general contractors Baton Rouge.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Do you have a construction project, but you just don’t know where to begin? Let us show you the steps that are necessary to make your project a reality. I’m John Kelly with Kelly Construction Group, and I wanted to jump in here for just a second and let you guys know that here at Kelly Construction, we’re more than just a builder. We’re your one stop solution. We want to help you with planning, design, permitting, and construction. If this sounds like a solution, you need reach out to us today. We’ve left the links in the show notes, set up a call. Now let’s get back to today’s show.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah. I could see where that would very quickly become a, just a multiplying or mushrooming problem. Because if you got other people now that are reaching out, like you said, estimating jobs or managing jobs, and they don’t have no way to source, you know, all the subs that you use, they don’t know from that use or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. They’re constantly needing you to tell ’em what to do and Right. That slows things down. It’s almost like not having that person there, or worse yet, you’re, you have another person you have to drag along with you while you do it again. Yeah. So, anyways, that, that really, uh, you know, um, does show how you need those. It illustrated, I guess what I’m trying to get to about the importance of having systems. And, and even like you said, you were very organized. I know you went through a, a, a construction management program, so you had formal education, and no doubt they go over the administrative part of being in business like that. So you had that mindset, but still you recognize that the minute you started getting staff, that wasn’t gonna be good enough that you had to have some other program in place. So,
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah. Well, even, even thinking about that, you know, the method that I was using, it doesn’t, it doesn’t work well when you start bringing on other team members and other things. I mean, we went to construction software Yeah. Years ago at this point. Yeah. But that was a part of, of kind of looking at our system and understanding, you know what, this really ain’t working for four or five of us. Yeah. Uh, and, and we went to a system that that does work that was designed for multiple users and Yeah. And different arms of the company. Uh, and even that, I mean, that’s a great example of something that, you know, I could have invested in earlier. I could have learned how to use it earlier. Yeah. Uh, we had quite a big team all kind of trying to learn it at the same time. Yeah. Uh, so e even that would be an improvement. Uh, you know, find that system or find that software program, whatever it is, buy into it early. Yeah. And, and have it perfected so that once you’re growing your team, you know how to do it like the back of your hand. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
That really speed things up quite a bit. So let’s talk about, uh, the money a little bit. Uh, you know, financial buffers, understanding your numbers. And I’m just curious, um, like how far into your business did you start to realize that there’s a difference between revenue coming in and actual profit and, and understanding what your real, your true overhead was and all that? How did all that kind of unfold to you? And, and, you know, when did you really put the energy into understanding that to start building your business? Listen up general contractors Baton Rouge.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, I mean, you know, knowing my numbers and understanding the numbers, I mean, I would say I was probably at least three or four employees in before I really dug into that. You know, I mean, obviously when it was just me doing my thing, you know, it was easy for me to know if I was making money. It was, I was, I was the one doing all the spending <laugh>. I was the only one getting paid. Yeah. Uh, it was very easy.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And you were the only one doing the work,
Speaker 1 (13:56):
<laugh>. Yeah, that’s right. In general, I knew, you know, I mean, it was just easy. I was the only usually probably doing a job or two at a time. Yeah. Uh, you know, they, I knew that I was making money on all of them. Uh, but as the company began to grow and, and we began to have multiple people buying materials be, we had, you know, I wasn’t even writing the checks anymore. Somebody else was writing the checks. And Yeah. I, you know, didn’t have a real good feeling for, uh, exactly where we were at all the time. Uh, and I think that what really made me dig into the numbers was, you know, once we had a year or two where I guess we didn’t make as much money as I thought we should have made, or, or whatever, didn’t, we really kind of dialed back and started looking at, you know, what are our numbers?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
What are our markups have to be on these projects, you know, to hit those numbers. Yeah. And, uh, and then, you know, we know that we’re, our markets, our markup is limited. Our, our markup’s kind of controlled by the market in a sense, if you will, in, in, in, on some jobs for sure. Yeah. Uh, so then you had to start looking at, okay, well, what kind of revenue do I need if I can only make this margin, and that means I need this much revenue. Yeah. Uh, so I mean, it was definitely, you know, three or four, maybe five years before I really started trying to, uh, understand the numbers because I was making money before I started hiring a team. It was, yeah. It was just me. Yeah. Uh, and then, uh, it, it just, it really empowers you to know your numbers. So once we started dialing in and, and figuring out and understanding what those numbers were, it, it became a lot different ball game. And, and, you know, it empowers our estimators. It empowers our, our project managers. Everybody knows what we need to make. They know what the numbers need to be, so now we’re all working together to hit that goal. Yeah. Uh, so very important to know your numbers. Probably should have known my numbers from the beginning, <laugh>, but again, 25 years old, you, you think that, uh, you think you know everything, you gotta figure
Speaker 2 (15:55):
It
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Out. Yeah, that’s right. You just, you get to work, you pay the bills, whatever money’s left, you try to find a way to spend it or keep it <laugh>.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
All right. All right. That’s great. So, so there’s point number one, talking about your business strategy and, and of course, you know, figuring out the numbers and stuff like that, and how to staff up when you, when you really should have staffed up and all that. So that’s great. So let’s talk about this second point. Uh, in your intro, you talked about, one of the things you said out the three things was that you, you didn’t really understand marketing or you just, you know, thought marketing could wait, you know, it, it wasn’t like a, a priority for you right away. Talk about your view on marketing now, you know, looking back. Yeah. And, and what, what kind of, uh, you know, role do you think it plays in business and stuff?
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, I think it’s huge <laugh>. Uh, I mean, obviously, you know, again, this is something that’s crazy, like now that I sit here and think about it, and, and if I, when I say this to you, it seems super dumb, but like, I literally didn’t think that there was really a place for marketing in, in construction. Like, I thought that, you know, everybody has a friend that’s a builder. I thought it was kind of one of the things, just word of mouth. Yeah. Uh, you know, uh, I guess, and, you know, I was young, so I guess maybe some of it was I thought that even if I was marketing, like why would these companies hire me? I’m just a kid, or just whatever. Yeah. But I really just didn’t believe in marketing. Like, I just thought that, uh, not that I didn’t believe in marketing, I didn’t believe in it, in what I was
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Doing. Didn’t think it was relevant for you at the time. Yeah. I think it was
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Relevant for, for construction. Yeah. Uh, but sometime probably the same time that some of these other things started happening, uh, I connected with a company that does some marketing and some different stuff. And at first I was very leery, but they were also saying a lot of stuff that had my attention. Like, are you tired of not having enough revenue? Are you tired of <laugh>? You know what I mean? Yeah. Just saying a lot of things that was like, man, I can relate to everything they say, and they, they must know something. Yeah. And so I ended up biting a bullet and, and, you know, signing the contract with these guys, getting ’em, do some marketing different stuff, and Yeah. I mean, right off the bat, we saw it, we saw it pay off. I mean, we, we started getting calls from leads that, uh, that normally we weren’t getting, you know, the phone literally before that day.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I promise you, the phone probably never rang, like more than five times where somebody was calling saying, Hey, I need, I needed a contractor. I mean, I was always out looking for the jobs. Yeah. And I was always out, you know, on the public bid market or, or knocking on doors, whatever. Yeah. So never had an inbound call before <laugh>, you know, we started doing some marketing, so Yeah. So that paid off right off the bat, and, and we understood that there was a, there was a need for it. And, and now obviously we spend a lot of time, you know, trying to think how we wanna market and what we wanna look like. Yeah. Uh, and, and we do a lot of different things, uh, you know, in that, in that realm now. Yeah. And they, and they pay off.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
What’s that?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I said, and they pay off. I mean,
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Uh, so one of the aspects of, you know, the marketing thing is, you know, figuring out what space you’re gonna serve. And, uh, we talked a little bit about before the show started about, you know, you wish you’d had kind of focused in more on what you’re really gonna do, and you’re, you’re kind of, you know, had a broad approach to the, to your, to the construction stuff, you know, you didn’t really niche down and own that niche. So Yeah. Talk that about that a little bit, if you would.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think early on I just, like I said, I I, every job was a good job. Like, if it paid, it was a good job. Yeah. And, uh, I would just go do, do any and everything. And, uh, you know, sometimes that was, I mean, me doing some work installing doors, sometimes that was, you know, me managing a project, a residential project, or a commercial project or, you know, no telling what it was, we was kind of all over the map. Yeah. And, uh, I did that for a long time just because I thought, look, any dollar can come through the door, I gotta go get it and gotta figure it out. Yep. But, you know, after years of doing that, I could have had a pretty good reputation as a residential builder or a pretty good reputation as a, you know, commercial builder or whatever. But at the end of the day, I just had a lot of stuff out there that I’d done <laugh>, you know what I
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Mean? Yeah. Kind of a mixed bag.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, once we really, and, and I, and really, I, I had a couple employees too before I really kind of started to dial in and pick a direction and, and decide how we wanted to be kind of viewed as a company. Yeah. Uh, but I mean, I think identifying that early on would’ve served me a lot better. Yeah. Uh, and, and probably something that I, that I should have done, you know?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah. So, uh, as far as, you know, the, the value of, of past clients and referrals and stuff like that, tell us a little bit about how you view the importance of investing in those relationships now compared to, you know, when you were first starting out now.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, I mean, I think I had a fairly good understanding of that, because like I said earlier, I thought that the only way to get work was really kind of word of mouth. Yeah. So I was really pretty good at, at staying in touch with people that had given me jobs mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, you know, letting those guys know, Hey, connect me with whoever you want, if, if, if, you know, if you need anybody to, to, to do that kind of work. Yeah. You know, and honestly, like referrals and word of mouth and, and repeat clients really kept us in business for all those years. I didn’t believe in marketing. Right. Yeah. Because that’s where all our jobs are coming from. Yeah. Uh, and so, so I, I completely believed and trusted in that kind of from the beginning mm-hmm <affirmative>. Obviously it’s something today that, that we try to take to a little, you know, higher level than what we did before. Yeah. Last time, you know, early in, in my career, I guess you just kind of stay in touch with ’em. Yeah. Now you want to do some other things to, to stay connected to those guys. Yeah. But, uh, but definitely always thought that was important and, and, and for sure think that that’s critical Yeah. To, uh, you know, to having a thriving business.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah. Do you ever stop and wonder like what, how different the business would look if you’d like, just was like all in on marketing, like on year one when you started Oh,
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to the, you know, the market was different,
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Totally different,
Speaker 1 (22:25):
You know, and I mean, we’ve seen highs and lows and highs. I mean, we’ve been kind of, we’ve been at it a while, so we’ve kind of seen, you know, what that looks like. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, I think marketing from the beginning would’ve changed everything. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah. I mean, you could have the best service in, in the industry, but if no one knows who you are, it, it really doesn’t matter. Right. So you just, it makes you wonder like what people would know about you now that, you know, had they learned about you years ago or whatever. So, I mean, that’s the hindsight 2020 thing, looking backwards and all that. And
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, too, even with some good marketing in the beginning, I, I could have looked more experienced, I could have looked more professional. I mean yeah. Marketing has a way of making you look like you’re
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Something you’re legit. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So I remember early on having some sales calls and, and stuff going to, you know, meet people and just not really having anything. They’re
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like, who are you again?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah. Just not really having anything, you know, to show or even really talk about except for, Hey, man, I want to go do a good job for you. Yeah. And a lot of times that just ain’t enough when somebody’s looking to spend five, 600,000, a million dollars on a project. Yeah. They wanna see a resume, they wanna see some stuff, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah. It adds a, a level of credibility that you just don’t get without it, you know? Yeah. Just, it’s definitely another layer. So, uh, that’s a good point, looking backwards that that marketing is definitely something that, uh, like you said in your intro, you’d change from day one if, if you could go backwards, of course, none of us can, but that’s why you’re giving us this insight today. So anyone listening or thinking about jumping in, can they, you should know that right from the get-go, you need to jump in on marketing and, and, uh, be promoting yourself.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I mean, I think you just gotta have an overall, you know, a a really put together plan. Yeah. Honestly, I, I would say that probably should have closed the show out with this comment <laugh>, but, uh, but you know, I knew that I wanted to have a business. I knew that I, I knew I needed to go get licensed. I knew those couple of things. Yeah. I didn’t really have a real spelled out plan, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Anyway, and I think that’s common with a lot of, you know, young guys, particularly in the trades, you know, you just want to get out there and start making money and get to work, you know, and but, uh, like this is kind of a cautionary tale where even though you’re successful now, it, if you could back up and just, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Like, what did it cost us?
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah. Just back up a little bit and, and, you know, you know, map things out a little bit more and, uh, you might even 10 x that success or whatever. So, uh, all right. So let’s go ahead and talk about that third point. And, uh, and this one’s a little different than what you had brought out in your outline about, you know, any job will do, which we can totally relate to, and we’ve done, you know, shows on that, you know, about the cost of just saying yes to anything. Yeah. But in, in this particular, uh, you know, part of looking back about, uh, you know, maybe taking a different approach, uh, I wanted to talk a little bit about relationships with subcontractors and the importance that they play in your, you know, in your business, really. I mean, you’re only really as good as, as your, your worst subcontractor, so, right. So talk a little bit about, uh, I know that you were kind of, you know, you were pretty keen on, uh, identifying subs that were valuable early on in, in your career. I don’t think that’s common with every young guy that goes out and starts a business in this Yeah. In this industry. But given that though, talk a little bit about what your early approach was, and then how has that grown, you know, over 17 years in the business?
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think I kind of got that right by, I don’t know if it was by luck or how I got that right. But, you know, I was able to connect with some good subcontractors very early on, first job or two that I, that I, that I used for many years actually still use some of ’em to this day. Yeah. Uh, and what I was able to realize is, man, these guys are doing a good job. And Yeah. And they were, you know, specifically one or two of them was would, would bringing me under their wing. They knew that I was a young contractor showing me things that I didn’t know, explaining some stuff to me, that’s awesome. Just taking time out to really kind of educate me, you know, without me asking, uh, just, I don’t know. I guess they could tell us,
Speaker 2 (26:39):
It didn’t make you feel dumb. They were just there to help. Yeah, no, that’s pretty
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Awesome. I guess they just knew that I was green and whatever, so I was able to connect with a few really good contractors. So they kind of set the bar going forward as I connected with new contractors. If I wasn’t getting that level of professionalism, uh, and, you know, I could identify good and bad work. So Yeah. If, if I wasn’t getting good work and I wasn’t getting that leadership that I had with those other subs Yeah. Then a lot of times I would just mark ’em off the list. Yeah. Uh, but what that allowed me to do is build a really good base of subs. Yeah. Uh, that helped me be successful early on. Yeah. Uh, now as the company’s grown, you know, we’ve, we’ve tried to lean into a process that, that we really, you know, kind of look at our subs and, and make sure we’re using good subs.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Uh, but I mean, from time to time you get a bad apple and, and that’s just, that’s just the way it is. Yeah. Uh, but what’s important is to, to understand what those good subs look like Yeah. And to make sure you keep that relationship. Absolutely. Uh, I mean, they’re going, we say that all the time, but we’re only as good as our worst sub. Yeah. And, uh, as long as you pick good ones, you don’t have a problem. Yeah. Uh, so I think it’s very key, specifically in our world to connect with some good subcontractors. Yeah. I mean, that would be something worth vetting out early on, not trying to make that decision on your own or, you know, if you’re, if you are hiring somebody, get some references Yeah. Or ask for some jobs that they’ve done, do something to, to ensure you are getting that, that high level sub. Yeah. But again, I connected with some subs early on. They were, they were really good at what they did. They had, they, you know, they had people that cared enough to show me some ropes. Yeah. And, uh, it’s worked out well for us. I mean, we still have good relationships with most of those guys.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah. I mean, it sounds, it sounds like they played a, a kind of a, a, you know, pretty substantial role in your early success, so it really highlights the importance of good subs if, uh, hopefully people listening are catching up on that, that, you know, the fact that they were producing good quality work and that they were so professional really lent to your success. Right.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Absolutely. Well, I mean, I can think of a contractor too, that if I hadn’t worked with ’em on that first job or that second job, when there’s jobs that popped up, I never would’ve bid it because I, I, I wouldn’t have felt like that I had the capacity to do it. Yeah. But teaming with them, I knew they had the men that knew how to do it. I knew they had the, the skills to do it. Yeah. That’s how I would bid it, and I would do it. Great point. Uh, and that, that happened time and time again for a lot of years, opened
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Up up doors
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right. Until I really grew and, and, and had a good grasp on, you know, most scopes and most stuff that we deal with today. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So, one of the points in our outline was, you know, you, we talked about treating subs like partners, not just vendors. So I know you’ve already pretty much, you know, expressed that. But again, how, what’s your view on that? Like, when, when, uh, you’re working with subs and you see that there’s a potential for relationship, how do you feel about that relationship as far as, like, do you go at a project with the, the approach that you’re partnering with them and what does that look like compared to just hiring somebody?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah. No, I definitely do. Uh, you know, thinking about that situation, I, there’s plenty of times and, and I, I feel like we’ve said this on the show before, but I mean, there’s plenty of times where we’ve gotten into a project and, you know, maybe a sub missed something in the bid or, uh, overlooked something, and then we’re willing to eat some of the costs and, and help ’em out so they don’t take a loss. Yeah. And then that, that’s happened the same way the other direction too, where Yeah. You know, maybe we missed something, but the, the sub stepped up and helped us out and helped us make it right. So that we didn’t have to go back to the client for more money. Yeah. Uh, so I mean, there’s some give and take as a partnership. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That’s, that’s a great example of that.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And I look at it too. I mean, I kind of feel like, I mean, obviously they’re not our employees. We, we don’t have to look at ’em like they’re our employees. Yeah. But they are a part of our team. They are critical to what we do. Absolutely. So, I mean, we try to take time out and, you know, have an appreciation day for the sub or Yeah. Take one of ’em to lunch or do something like that. But yeah, I mean, they’re a part of the lifeblood of our business, so Yeah. It’s important to, to maintain those relationships and, and, and keep ’em.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely. Yeah. No, I really like that point, uh, about as a partner, you’re willing to, you know, uh, go, go all the way with them as far as like, you know, sharing costs when there’s a problem, because we, every project there seems to be something that somebody’s missed, whether it’s on their end or your end or whatever. And it’s a, having that working relationship where you’re willing to meet each other in the middle and, you know, for the success of the project and the success of each other, so that neither one is gonna take such a hit that it’s hard to come back from, or, or you don’t wanna work together again. Right. That type
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Of thing, you know? Well, that’s how you know you got a good sub ’cause Yeah. When they’re willing to have that relationship, they know that Yeah. You rely on each other. Like, for us to succeed, they have to succeed Yeah. And vice versa, you know?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah. That’s a nice quality to find. I don’t imagine it’s found in every sub that you work with, so Yeah, absolutely. When you do come across that, I, I could see where you’d hone in on that and want to build that relationship. So we talked too about, uh, you know, and you’ve mentioned this already, like the point in the outline was, you know, build a reliable, stable and not a Rolodex of people. So instead of having like 50 subcontractors, you’ve done one job with, you know, have, have a half a dozen that you’ve done multiple projects with Yeah. And that you really know and, and, uh, can trust and all that.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Yeah. I mean, you, you want to have multiple subs because it, uh, it keep projects balanced, it keeps ’em priced at, at the right range. Yeah. Uh, you know, if you have a really good subcontractor, but they’re super busy and they’re gonna go have to hire another electrician or two, then their, their price might be a little higher. But if you have another sub that you’re working with quite frequently as well, but maybe they’re a little slower, but their price, their price point’s a little better probably. Yeah. So, you know, having multiple options, it helps from the price point from the client and, but it also gives us options, you know, if they, if they are, if if we’re, if we’re completely relying on subcontractor A and he’s slammed Yeah. Well, our work’s gonna take a hit. Yeah. Uh, so, so just from scheduling and, and actually getting the project done too Yeah. It makes sense to have multiple options Yeah. You know, for good subs.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Sure. So it’s good to have like, like it says, a stable of, of subs, you know? Yes. In other words, multiple subs, but not necessarily, you don’t, you don’t want to have just a bunch of one hit wonders either. Right. That you really don’t have any relationship with.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I mean, our approach is on that is, is, I mean, we really want two or three good subs for, for most scopes that we do. Yeah. That’s a good,
Speaker 2 (33:33):
And then rule
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Of thumb, and then I like to try to be loyal to ’em. I mean, I like to try to, you know, if, if a project pops up that I can Yeah. Direct their way and I can pick hand pick my electrician or hand pick our plumber or whatever. Yeah. Then I like to be able to do that. Yeah. Uh, you know, for the quality for, for the quality one, you know, you’re getting good quality, but two, just for the partnership that we’re talking about. Yeah. Just to continue to, to keep that rolling.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, and you kind of mentioned this, this last point that I wanna talk about, and, and you, you mentioned it early on about how, you know, you were capable of recognizing quality work, but really the, the, the quality of your subcontractor and their work is really your reputation. Yeah. So just speak to that just for a minute again, to, to kind of re reemphasize that point so that people
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Understand. I think that’s a good place to start when you’re choosing a contractor. And I mean, what I mean, what I mean by that is, you know, you know what you want your company to look like, you know how you want your company to produce Yeah. You know, pick contractors that are subcontractors that look like that, that act like that Yeah. That do the same thing. You’re gonna be in the right direction. You’re gonna be, you know, stepping in the right direction when you find that contractor. Yeah. That don’t mean they’re gonna go perform and do it at a high level, but if they taking the time and the effort to be presentable and professional and to, you know, if they mirror your Im your company’s image, you know Yeah. Then you’re, you’re probably starting off in the right direction. Yeah. Uh, but it’s important because they’re out there doing the majority of the work your subcontractors are doing, you know, 85, 90% of the work on the job. Yeah. So you gotta make sure that they look and act the way you wanna look and act, because at the end of the day, the product is 85% completed by them, you
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Know? Yeah. When someone looks back, when one of the stakeholders on a project looks back at the project in their, in their memory, you know, when they’re talking with their people, you know what I mean? Aside from us, they’re thinking of whoever was there last, like whoever that last sub was trimming out, you know, whether it’s electrician or whatever, or plumber trimming out, they’re think that’s who they’re thinking of when they think of Kelly Construction or, or whatever the name of the company was that Yeah. Was finishing up the job there.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Or maybe they just thinking of the worst sub. That was my job, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Either way, you gotta mention maybe. So have
Speaker 1 (35:52):
A bunch of good ones,
Speaker 2 (35:53):
<laugh>. Ouch. Anyways. All right. Well that’s great, man. Thanks for sharing, uh, your insight on these three hindsight points. I guess we would call ’em looking back and, and these, you know, these three areas where you definitely would change some things from day one. You know, had you had all this, uh, wisdom, you know, when you started out, of course we know that’s not the case, but it’s, this is the opportunity for someone listening to benefit from that acquired experience. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
It still don’t feel like a ton of wisdom
Speaker 2 (36:23):
<laugh> we’ll call it experience then, if that makes you feel better. But, uh, so any, any last things that, when you think about the, the past and how you started out, any, any other things that weren’t necessarily covered in the points that we wanna talk about that you’d do differently starting over?
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, I mean, not necessarily, nothing’s really hit my brain. I know a lot of times we wrap it up and I’ll have something <laugh>. I mean, I think today, but mainly just, just think about the things that we’ve talked about. You know, you know, if you need to hire somebody, hire ’em. Yeah. It’s, it’s going, it’s going to put you in the right direction. Yeah. You know, don’t, you know, marketing’s important. Don’t think it ain’t. Yeah. Uh, and, you know, be selective on your jobs. Be be selective on who you working with. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Have some standards. Right.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
And, and good things will happen, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Awesome. All right, John, well thanks for sharing that with us. Hope you enjoyed this episode about, uh, you know, some necessary things that you should try to think about if you’re getting ready to jump in, if maybe you’re in a construction management program and you’re, you’re, uh, wanting to become a contractor at some point, uh, these are great ideas about, you know, coming from somebody that actually, uh, has, you know, walked the walk and talks the talk, uh, for 17 years, been in the industry and has, you know, made the mistakes and also had the successes to be able to share with you. Hopefully these points, uh, resonate with you. And, uh, anyways, look us up on LinkedIn and, uh, you know, hit us up in the comments too on this video, this episode. If there’s something you wanna say about this episode or you have questions for John, uh, feel free to leave us a comment. And, uh, we’ll definitely get back to you on that. So that’s gonna wrap it up for episode 31 of the K Cup. Come back and see us again real soon and please take a minute to subscribe and give us a thumbs up if you would. And that’s it. We’ll see y’all again real soon. Aios.